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Jennifer near Moore and Dan Holliday tornado touched is fine when it's tornadoes strikes the damage left behind it determines its strength the enhanced Fujita scale is our model for estimating winds in the tornado they can we learn how strong the tornado is when there's nothing in his past. Can mobile doppler radar Hal various. He is tornado talk. What to do with the wind we hear from four experts who each have an opinion on damage surveys and mobile radar data. And how it might be used in the future of meteorology. On May 24 2016. Multiple tornadoes touched down across western Kansas. Some of those tornadoes were large in size that we're an open country. So the estimation of how strong they were was determined by mobile doppler radar meteorologist in charge of the National Weather Service in Dodge City. Larry risky says this county warning area doesn't have many structures for tornados to heads. He like to see mobile radar included in the final survey of a tornado. I strongly supported I think if we have actual observations which are reliable and research qualitative. That should trump. The actual damage observation that we haven't had. Particularly midwestern tennis still a lot of wide open areas were all we have to get our power lies in this irrigation systems pinch post. And we've got to have an EF five tornado that this doesn't hit anything that I can just signed a deadly trading. That would be greater than he had 400 I have a dowel or some sort of they animation prudent situation was so high quality very dark. Stated should be used if we're going to give his real calm and logical perspective what actually happened with the thunderstorms. So I I really hope that at some point we will be able to use those inside measurement. Doctor Greg Forbes is a severe weather expert we see on the weather channel he would like to include data from teams in the field to assist in analyzing a tornado strength. However there were a number of factors on how to measure the storm to take into consideration. Well I think ultimately. The bubble bubble. And radar winds could become used the and and should be term used. But the problem is that the moment that for the most part there are measuring weakens. There are four in a somewhat above your misery. Home overthrew him there and frankly most of the damage. That is caused by a tornadoes is biting. Relatively. Low buildings homes and occasionally. I devotion. Business buildings. A much lesser personal extent. Be any tall buildings get involved so but the big. To the idiots who Judas skills really designed to be. And about a ten foot level we know about. The rooftop level or about new to talk to the first floor of world is. Most of the mobile doppler radar we and she. Since would be best to choke up a little bit in order to avoid blocking by treason and getting things with him and other structures in the way you do things we program clutter. Most of the time they're measuring gets somewhere in the thirty to fifty feet range above ground as the lowest. Altitude. And the problem is Linda. Because affliction become so much more he dipped down toward the ground there's a very normal earlier. Relationship between the women's. You also speak eat and what they might be a potentially blow hole but it. It probably varies from occasion to occasion we don't know exactly you don't be ready to algorithm. For trained awaiting a fifty foot motor wind to what it would be a ten foot level. Because of exceptional tracked how it varies with stability and some rough muscle growth of the particular units. Other reasons would be in the bill also it seems as if from. What we can see good. Some tornadoes moved the fashions we might be a hundred feet and other tornadoes professionals we might be done it ten feet so that domination of tornado variability and an unknown. Transformed from both the radar measured outlook to die under the ten foot outlook two views. It is a problem. Rick Smith as the warning coordination meteorologist at the National Weather Service in Norman Oklahoma Rick says they're continues to be a lot of talk among members of any urology community. About how to balance small radar with the damage surveys. They're there is a large group or an expert engineers meteorologists to others. That are looking at things like that they're looking at you know what's next for ES scale are there other things. But to be changed with the little war and I know that the beer. There's that's a big topic of discussion I don't know where it's gonna go what's gonna happen but I. You know just my personal opinion I I think you know. When he raped a tornado based on net or not he certainly need to account for it in you know to. So must propose you know has to scale also have a radar scale of one on a damage scale also. He could end up or something like Archie DT you know let's radar indicated it was he had to end damage indicated it was yet to you so. There's there's nothing official and effort that's that's moving forward with that but there is. There's a lot of discussion and there is a real recognition. You know within the scientific community has that that's gonna need to be accounted for it's there or more. Moratorium now they're just helped Oklahoma mean restore vortex southeast experiment that went on. University of Alabama Huntsville has. A mobile radar believe so you know it's it's something. They were gonna have to learn address somehow and I and I think it is being addressed but I don't know I don't know where more than it was today. It is difficult for someone who was watching a tornado to completely understand how a tornado can be extremely large yet not damage any thing and be rated so low. Rick explains why that is. There are a lot of misconceptions when it comes to you know estimating a tornado's intensity. There were there was a lot of very dramatic. Close up video I don't I don't know and reversing some much closer video. Damaging tornadoes as we saw from may ninth here and in southern Oklahoma. And as just emotions in the appearance of trees apparently being ripped out of the ground and structures exploding and. Just a lot of destruction and as we did things we didn't used to see. But now more than two with more cameras and more eyes out there we're seeing more just to see that in the end. Has the weather service come out and say well it was only it's on a scale from zero to find those only gets three. Sometimes touches hearts of people wrap our heads around that that's. If you know that the only way we can rate tornadoes is based on the damage that they produce. There were mobile radar purse that that simple to what happens inside these tornadoes on the close range in the summit fairly low levels within the tornado. At this point the way to EF scale works in the winter weather service works. We can't use those those numbers we can't use of radar operator measured wind speeds to rated tornado because we are. Using it yet scale which is which is a payment scale. So besides the tornadoes the appearance of the tornado the apparent violent motion within the tornado. The fact that it car was thrown X number of 300 to repeat. There's a lot of things that happen in tornadoes that we see tornado video. Don't make us think that a tornado might be violence might be EF four or EF five. But the bottom line has it can't be EF four EF kind of let it hit something in producer DF four gift ideas. Each Tim Marshall as a meteorologists an author and structural and forensic engineer he works at Hague engineering anti access. Tim along with doctor Greg Forbes is on the development team that came up with the enhanced Fujita scale for tornadoes. He feel strongly about how new data should be integrated in the final rating of the damage survey. Well we always need to maintain more engaged target into mobile scale I am secure if you could be really complex. Soul. Did you maintain walk but we also need to. State where the observation that is coming from the community who want to you'll survey injury or else our school. On damaged and you just need to indicate that this is the damage based number. If you have a dour reading. The Dow regained. And they need to indicate there's Nadal faced number. The probably the automobiles. Is that radar does not measure we in this. It is an instantaneous value of energy. There comes back. To the radar and that it gives deciphered true what you algorithms. On what. These speed could be. And he's not a point measurement it is an area we need measurement based on mutual activity. And it's measuring kind of an average you know a lot of soul. This is a problem I am this year coach. So were comparing apples and oranges when we try to talk about. What's appoint measurement of vs what radar da send missiles right now all. The weather service has been directed not to include golf world. On we also all measurements in their evaluation and I think it'll eventually happen but I think you need to. Using his degree assault that it is Apple's vs oranges there need to be some way to compare. Page doppler on wheels measurements that we is an actual measure they needed immediate hours. Instrument and cowards. That are. Are there are during like a gust front or something and and you. Paradox while we build nearby a measure that and compare that to all the what's being readings on the wind tower. Vs what the readings are on the Dow while we'll try to do some calibration. Hour. Experts agreed that new data should be used to help us learn and understand even more about each tornado. But how all of this factored will be something we likely see evolve over time do you have a story about tornadoes you'd like to share. Let us know and you'll be featured on a future program Justine Ellis and Shannon Dan as tornadoes Cox dot com. Next on our Halloween edition of tornado Todd twisters from the past to come back to haunt us. What is the scariest tornado you've ever seen him. We relive a monster multiple award season things that set off our weather radio in the nine. It's frightening fun as I can. When he tore the.