I'm John -- -- come home lives here conference of presidents. Major American Jewish organizations. We check off the Abbas -- tonight Malcolm we've spoken with several of our correspondents tonight about this surprising turn. To the dark side for Abbas to join with Hamas breaking all possible negotiations with Israel but also cutting off the PA. From the sources of funds that are guaranteed by congress. And you'd have to say by the Israeli government with a collection of the BUT we don't know if it'll go that far but it's there and it's been talked about in the past. Abbas is at an exit point in his career he has no successor. Is going to Hamas. A way of avoiding. He is fear anxiety rivalry with. Dolan who is to -- and why would that man threatened a box. -- was a long time operative. Sets have been another clip the crap but built his own private militia. Was seen as a threat to in Gaza win before Hamas took over in -- if -- he was driven into -- south. And now seems to have the backing of some of the gulf states and others to. At present a challenge to Hamas and to -- presents an alternative for -- for leadership. When they felt that Hamas was -- disintegrating. Lost Iran's support it was losing support from the gulf and Saudi Arabia and had only -- -- Primarily to lean on now they've try to get back in the good graces of the -- So that's one possibility that window that -- at that Abbas has long used this thread that he would resign about an archive resigns they dissolve the PA. But he's gone a step further at this time many people are skeptical as the week because we know the threat that Hamas. Opposes to him and his rule he's in the ninth year of his four year term and that bringing them into the parliamentary election could be extremely dangerous. But he also is looking to the future and I think he's trying to maximize his leverage. He's showing what we've seen many other areas that the United States the west's don't really scare them anymore that the -- dictating their own. Way he he even to the night before he made the announcement. He told his interlocutors from the United States that he was demanding a freeze in settlements of focus on borders on his borders his agenda. And that he wanted more prisoners. To be released and he threatened to bring in the Russians as the interlocutor not the United States. And he's been playing this game for a long time he's a pro at it as was Arafat. But as one of Israel's leading and I would say leftist journalists said -- we surprised. We thought he's gonna make a deal with with Olmert when he offered him everything and he said walked away from it when they offered him the deal with Iraqi walked away from it every other opportunity walked away from. It's no surprise here. We moved to a story from the past but it's a story worth telling because there are always revelations about the Holocaust in the recovery in Europe once upon a time. This is his story from Amsterdam Malcolm is that right exactly. And it's a remarkable story -- because it was some students doing research that discovered this. And they were given access to some city files and they found that the officials in Amsterdam. After the -- cause -- his Second World War charged. Holocaust victims who were returning Dutch victims 75% of the Dutch Jewish community was an exe was killed. And date they charge them for. That it taxes and did the rentals and their houses that were not used to and at times they were in the camps even though they were occupied by Nazis by officials by others. During this period. They charge them an amount ten million dollars in nineteen in the mid 1940s you know is as some great multiple of that today in an actual value to. Understand the impact and while some protesters at the time the government was unrelenting and it remains a secret. Until these Dutch a young people uncovered it and it it is caused quite a shockwave in Amsterdam. And in the Dutch news I'm reading in English here. Jewish Amsterdam Burress who were charged ground rent for their properties over the years they spent in concentration camps -- seems unbelievable. Or are hiding your -- -- -- World War II should get their money back according to the city's mayor this is the mayor of Amsterdam in Naples students discovered that hundreds of Jews were sent the bills when they return to their homes after the war. They should now get that money back plus interest Eberhard Von -- -- told K our own news. Program moved in who love these programs who can do I think she's changing naming your showed ghetto dialect of the every cent the council or by being heartless -- bureaucratic should be returned and the interest is part of that testified we have a mayor in Amsterdam has -- -- collect the money that's it is staying Malcolm. It's incredible but what's we have to speak of this -- just a moment. Because younger people are listening and they think what foolishness didn't everybody know you and I grew up in a period after the war. Discussion of our conversation. Or knowledgeable holocaust was rare. It did not come up and lessons it was not part of the school curriculum that was not on television. First -- I learned about it was when I learned from my father that he'd seen one camp. In Germany not a death camp a concentration camp nothing like the death camps that we know to be true. And you and I grew up in suburban Philadelphia. Many Jews lived and are in lower Marion township it was not commonplace for people to talk about. I did though because my parents word of fortune victims immigrant parents Roland violated so. I -- grew up with with the knowledge of the project you're saying something import and we're now into cycle. Where people -- want to forget young people especially say it's depressing they don't wanna know. New York Times reported just recently that there were 42000. Camps concentration kids -- kids labor camps. No one knew these numbers we're gonna publish a book next week which will show. That that the number of synagogues destroyed on Crist on the November 9 1938 we call -- program the the night of the program. And we've identified five times more than the history books at more than thirteen hundred synagogues destroyed on November 9 and thirtieth and its aftermath. Which is marked as the beginning of the actual holocaust of the many Jews were killed even before that. So there there there is a desire to forget there's a desire not to remember but ignorance comes with a very high price and future generations pay that price and fifty years ago it was even that much easier to ignore this information all right now back to the 21 century. Jordanian air force you tell him up and destroyed a forces from Syria and what they do that. While there's there's increasing tension along the borders we know because of the operations of some of the rebel groups of this. I'll Qaeda type groups -- I -- in -- in particular. And they they do a column of the cars of armored vehicles were coming across and for the first time Jordanian air force went into action. And blew them off the map this is very important because it's an indication of the sensitivity of the situation in Jordan -- Muslim Brotherhood. Is isn't you know part of the rejectionist forces and they're concerned it was leading terrorists who would come in in. And I think Jordan is now acting preemptively. To try and control and contained have a million and half or more Syrian refugees and more coming in the -- come across the border. Dispersed for Jordan is very grave danger. Quickly -- we only have a -- July 20 what's the significance of that this that they that their commuting around about it as -- deadline for proposed agreement you know attended the negotiating period Iran and Garcia. These are all full. In new -- with suggestions these are unacceptable. There has to be no capacity we saw this this this. At the subterfuge about an Iraq -- the the meaning that you like the and Tony reactor Iraq -- the country. And it turns out that did what they were really proposing. Is just to slow down the production not to move to a light water where they would only be able to reduce medical isotopes. So there are many disturbing things but we hear that the negotiations may be held in New York the next round in the next few days. But will be interest. Malcolm online conference of president's major American Jewish organizations we're going to Israel next I'm John -- Plus. I'm John bachelor this is the John that's -- show my colleague and friend Malcolm homeland of the conference of presidents with me. Because there's trouble with Gaza actually there's trouble with the Palestinian Authority as well but we'll start in Gaza where joy and by -- floppy in publishing most recently in the -- don't institute. About Hamas and the troubled variant they're out of cash out of time but apparently not out of provocations. -- for very good evening to you in Israel good evening good morning. The recent events of the Palestinian authorities their provocative remarks. Does that look to you to be a success for Hamas is this what they intended in. Their desperation in Gaza good evening. Hi good evening job yet I think it is. A far more successful outcome -- that it is. I'm assuming that -- union goes through when there's a lot of doubt that it will certainly stage. But if they do push through. That this will activate bridgehead. For Hamas. Politically. To move into the West Bank start taking over institutions. Has traditionally been. Exclusively controlled by the arrival but. And I think it's. A danger. But school in the West Bank a lot happen I think -- is aware of that. -- but I think that given the risks are far greater what -- that this. Goes. Just a moment Malcolm I want a note for our audience that -- a F files -- his coverage is extremely up to the moment for the crisis. That we witnessed now with the PA and the Hamas he's a journalist for the Jerusalem Post also filing at the -- stone institute and he's the author most recently of the virtual palaces exposing the Islamist state. On the Internet please continue Malcolm. So so personable to what degree and negotiators from the from god. Really deliver in terms of amid Hamas when you have Islamic Jihad al-Qaeda and others fighting them they seem to be very strong divisions. And how -- Egyptian government reacted to this because of their sensitivity to two development in doubt. I can only imagine that the Egyptian government together with Saudi government. Both. Appalled. But this in because they view Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas to their natural ally. As the greatest threats two stability. And their national security. And I would be surprised if I'd seen. A couple of books -- Receiving -- -- called. Both Riyadh and Cairo ask him what were you thinking. We had a mob rule isolated and now about in Gaza. Have that the southern new legitimacy. So I would describe it is facing a lot of pressure for a fellow Arab leader. -- also you myself Rangers in hearing what. What but what about -- those questions it was. Yeah knock off you indicate a rainy and funds the IR GC out could force have been flowing into Gaza for some time. Does this change of governance -- this new provocation. Does that increase the funds decreased from does that have little to -- an effect at all on the funding. Well I think if we go to the beginning in terms of mapping out who was with the rapidly into Gaza. And we have Islamic Jihad which is Iran. Primary Palestinian proxy -- Your position that is completely loyal. Are translated. Funded directly by threat has been quote to dictate. And it's. It's. Beat army of god and the guerrilla terrorists have been trained in Iran. About. What in the position of being eight benefactor of the -- supported insisted until. It took he's so excited period possible war. And that's included on the opposite side effects with it red -- caught up on the results. And now you grant and aids sort of inviting come on back into its orbit they looked at no allies of opinion perhaps Turkey cut. That you need and would probably agree with that but. They know that if they rejoined the Iranian orbit. That they would provoke even harsher rejection response that they have already. So it's a very complicated situation -- that would -- to simplify things that. Love each -- growing stronger in Gaza because of radiant funding and support. And that place to come about in -- more tenuous position that it was years ago. Malcolm and you'd be you'd think United States was court as it appears completely off guard. That it has no. Even despite the fact did you have Martin Indyk and others on the ground it really did not anticipate this little. Got -- to hear the question. All right I'll repeat. Malcolm -- who do you believe that the administration especially Martin Indyk was caught unaware. Of this despite having -- on the ground these many months. I think that everybody was caught -- it be fair I think yes the US administrations caught unaware and much is vision that's so what the Israeli government. I think that. Even though about had been talking about this union prolonged side nobody really believes. Said he would go this far. And we've seen quotes in the media that your firm you're. Members of the government in the cabinet table we thought the main threat would be that outpost would. It's bad the Palestinian Authority and hand over key Israel that it's a threat because. You'll be saying to assure you take charge of the Palestinians in the West Bank which is not a companies do not want to do. But it turns out that though along yet been pursuing these talks about that this was the maneuver that have been plotting. But I think that everybody both Washington and Jerusalem were caught by. -- Can we expect violence to a -- fetus some demonstration of superiority. Now Yucca. I think that we might see -- it's organized violence. I'm talking about being polite crowd were -- spontaneous sliding. Rock throwing Molotov cocktails perhaps. I hope not but perhaps -- a -- shooting incident. I don't think that this is going to automatically translate into. Increase in organized violet. Because. The terrorist organizations that are able to. Put together serious effect like suicide bombing global effects they try to do that. Anyway and they've been blocked that every step. Body huge debt by usability security agency that the intelligence agency. So I think we might get sudden increase in its organized -- I don't think it's going to turn into a thirty to Fargo ordered it you know and it ruptured that. Furious. Terrorist campaign now -- See any implications -- has a lot in this do they try to react to regain attention. Do you see any kind of maneuvering on their part in this regard. A lot think -- I'd be watching with interest but they're very busy in their neck of the -- Trying to keep -- -- a life. There're argued that the sort of you -- -- -- like support system but it looked up the outfit -- And they are so busy both fighting now for a -- the area. And fighting for their legitimacy in Lebanon which is coming under unprecedented Barack. Many problems. That I don't think that they have the resources or the ability. To leverage new development. To their advantage in any meaningful way god. -- off a penis a journalist for the Jerusalem Post covering military and security affairs he has breaking news on a daily basis. On the situation in Israel in the Middle East now concentrating on Hamas in the Gaza Strip he's the author of the virtual -- exposing the Islamist state on the Internet. He publishes his most recent observation of Hamas. At the gates don't institute -- home line Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations I've done bachelor. This is John -- -- -- -- This is the John vaccination Ulysses has -- president of the United States but before that Ulysses S. Grant a general Lincoln. Turned to. Desperate to find -- general to close down. Lee and the resistance of the confederate states of America -- may early may. 1864. Lieutenant general Ulysses S ground now commands the army of the top 100000 plus. They're looking to go Overland against general Lee and what begins. Is a series of battles the first is battle of the wilderness. Jeffrey Norman joins me. He writes for the weekly standard is a contributor there and he's following civil war battles. 150 anniversary and we're now at the point where we can talk about the Overland campaign beginning with. Wilderness because it's an illustration of this man grant. Jeffrey a very good evening to you the wilderness campaign it's awful the Overland campaign is butchery. What is significant about the way grants handles the army the Potomac could evening to you. Targeted -- you thanks for having me welled up most. Salient. Distinction about grant is that he was unlike any of the generals who came before him all the room. Backed off. Are or were actually run out of Virginia bodily. Grant did not intend to be Virginians turned was. Is aim was to destroy -- Let's go back to when he gets the assignment to take over the army of the Potomac. You begin with the wonderful scene it's almost apocryphal so magical. This dusty fellow he was not a tall man. His hair was too long and he doesn't attend to his -- that closely. He walks into the Willard Hotel which is the rich -- Washington the official government hotel across from the White House in the complex that the war department. In 1864 is so march of 64 he registers. And asks for a room what happens to Africa. Well Ollie walks CNN and you know -- -- -- and the peace. He's he's dressed in very. Almost -- the uniform now a lot of gold ornaments. He has the insignia of a major general -- you know Willard that in by you the price of the current -- saw. Major general and that Washington's full of certain -- you know. Pompous political and moral so nobody paid much attention when he. Ask the desk clerk of the there was room available grant was traveling with the Asia and so on his twelve girls. The desk clerk kind of gave in this are pursuing a slower exit well I suppose we find something maybe. More. View the islanders and nature. Gave him later this side and he. Wrote it and you'll see -- -- and so on -- in Illinois and it is -- -- and everything changed news as everybody knew grant was coming to ten. Take over command -- union armies. At this point however it was grant the Victor of Vicksburg and previous battles going back to Charlotte Church in the controversy end there was you right Jeffrey an asterisk next to his name what was -- that hesitation. Well there was don't deny his victories. Shiloh in the minds of many might have come a little too -- and awful casualties on both sides and grant was not at the scene of the battle -- it opened up. And -- and there was some. Evidence that he he he and his forces. Surprised by the consider chapter Albert should be judged and so there are they old. Rumor the rumor we've all heard about grant and drinking. Bubbled up and -- -- -- he had been away from the battle and he would draw. There. There's no evidence to prove this it's undeniable would grant -- at a problem with alcohol. Back ten years for the world which was why he would -- -- I showed churches 1862. And then Vicksburg is 1863. Vicksburg you seize on as an -- as an illustration of the grant not being a one day -- general. A man who fights a campaign over a great amount of territory. Did that impress Lincoln that maneuver of the strategy that he used there. I think that may be you know my reading is -- yeah personally deeply appreciated that but I think portly. Appreciated more than anything else on him and which looked to some people as though it was a kind of and unimaginative bull headed -- but it was actually sort of tenacity. To them. Graduation refused to be B and refused to back off. Even his his most trusted or role accomplish subordinate. General Sherman at one point during the expert camp and -- Give it up come back to Memphis and let's start over the grant didn't -- and -- -- Ulysses grant arrives at the Willard he is given the army of the Potomac and it's important to flag what that means at this point it's been in the hands of generals who have. Abuse it or not used it all let's tell McClellan story. Lincoln was disappointed in McClellan he runs against him in the campaign of 1864 is a Democrat how -- McClellan handled the the army in comparison to how grant was about to use it. Well McClellan was a it was a superior organizer. And administrator and he. Took an army that had been beaten the first Pro Bowl on them. -- lost a lot of -- -- accomplishments was you know demoralized and social organized and what didn't and -- great shape. He was reluctant to fight. -- he he almost didn't wanna take this magnificent. -- parade ground army. And I get it dirty. So he found all -- waste not to buy it port Lincoln. Frustrations that true and well if you don't plan to use -- or pro. That was sixty -- then there -- a series of generals occur meted Gettysburg of course and now grant takes command let's go back to the wilderness. Because my reading of the wilderness is that it was butchery. Did grant intend that did he was he was he paying attention to the casualty rate. You know. The whole that whole series of battles which. Label we use core group called -- -- in which is that what is known as. Was it was terribly bloody on both sides of you know grant got a reputation of being torture actually. Proportionately. To. Curtailed -- campaign. So that I would make the argument that they yes that the casualties awful but that was less a function Gerald ship and worse. Modern weapons. Size in the army's closeness of the fact there was no other way. For those battles to fall they were going to be bloody battles. Before. Two different wars grant warning him one. General bars. Party -- bloody. Futile battle for crisper picture -- for murder bloody battle. A chance Israel and hands and liked Armstrong actually had to treat. So the -- battles were bloody at that spark of necessarily a point against grants for general ship as much as it is. Just the nature war. Jeffrey in my read of grant's decision there and 64. Is. That he was blunt. He had many more men to call upon he had endless recruiting going on the draft was in motion. And they could grab people right off the boat from Ireland and send him to the Virginia fields. He also had an industrial machine that was going to produce Canon and the longer the war went on the more guns -- half. Did he take that into the battlefield was that the idea it doesn't matter how many I lose I can replace him and -- can't. Yeah I think so and I think Lincoln believed that too you know Lincoln believed in the awful respective teams that -- -- One and he loses one. I'll Wear him because our place some and he can't. The and again I think that I think grant was not. It's not so much that he was oblivious to cared racists is that there was that he and Sherman and the generals who would actually come to receive what the nature this war was. Realized that there was no other way. Right and the nature of this war you flagged that in your story Jeffrey. Grant saw very early on there would be no negotiated peace there would be no armistice there would be no surrender he had to destroy -- Right then and warfare it change so much for -- Modern rifles and you know long range artillery actually these things. It'd gone from being a vacation for you know say it. Yorktown. In the revolution it was a matter maneuvering corner Wallace and to a position that he. He couldn't disband or -- prominent them -- I'm not really very many casualties -- -- a civil war was totally different doesn't mean you fight for three days as they did it Gettysburg. Fifty bow over 50000 casualties on both sides and at the end of the day nobody was really you know ready to quit. -- was there are still plenty of fight left gently and and need help field so that's what you. Jeffrey Norman for the weekly standard 150 years ago march of 1864. Just to figure from Galena Illinois takes command of the fate of the U. I'm John bachelor this is John baffled. And John back. This -- back to show the 21 century Chinese Communist Party. What is to be done. The fate of the party is fixed TV is the only party in. The People's Republic of China there is no democracy is we understand that the party leads and the people followed the GDP growth in Chinese miracle our demonstration of this being a successful. However I read from -- -- fish is the Asia editor foreign policy that there is impossible. Another fake and it is at all disaster. I -- a very good evening to you it is in about the Russia Communist Party which -- fall and I believe into the sentimentality. Of the elderly. Who gather around with red flags and sing songs and tell stories of heroic cold days Lenin and Stalin and whatnot in the patriotic war. But there is saying another party that dominates a another capitalist environments. That does compare very favorably possibly. And the surprise here is we better introduce it what about Mexico what's in Mexico that could be the Chinese Communist party's future good evening here. John thanks for having me. So Mexico is right now by the PRI. The same party that ruled from 1929 to 2000 making Mexico's -- most successful one party states. In the twenty century. And the wall China's shares a lot more of the -- from his party just a lot more comments where is the Soviet union's Communist Party. The wave that Mexico. Was in the eighties and nineties as much more similar to the way to China is today. And the show Boller can. Moscow. Of the 1980s and the afterlife so. -- PRI. Is far more welcoming. To the Chinese and the afterlife the -- -- Let's talk about the PRI's -- is call. It dominated all those years and even when it's been out of power in the 21 century it kind of immediately can get back in and claim reform. Was the -- considered. A good thing. We often heard about the billionaires. And their. The as they a country of two kinds of people the really rich and everybody else. Good question I think that this is aware of the pre and the CP are very similar -- that. They were seen as a group very efficient technocrats. Who. Selectively ignored human rights in order to encourage Mexico is ground. And so as long as today visitors a similar bargain that the Mexicans that the Chinese have today as long as. The government's spill brought growth and as -- -- corruption is not being used to egregious. These people were willing to live with a compromise human rights and are willing to live where it's. Less political power there's pretty big difference between. The people's participation. In China today than in Mexico in the eighties and nineties. The decree did -- elections they were rigged they want everytime into the until 2000 that they actually held national elections. While in Beijing today although there are -- respect. Other parties. Parties are completely useless the elections that they hold our leaders very very vocal. Or -- it's actually do hold elections at the highest level Chinese power who we don't really know how this works. President Hu Jintao and prior president 101000 years for the CC PI like that I like that that that's the kind of stirring opening for a movie. What is and what are the nightmares for the standing committee to they sit around and and daydream about falling statues that kind of thing they see a fate that they worry about. That they have to choose another path and Moscow. I would love to know what. Standing committee passed its ground and dreams about it is gonna have to be completely speculative but you do think that there are worried. Going nowhere hey garbage and Yeltsin. -- -- today they see themselves a lot more in part because. They grew up in the same Communist tradition and they paid lip service to the same. -- marks and and -- you know days. They feel that the Russian model is something that could happen to them I think that's why. They made obvious comparisons with the city you know why they're afraid that. I think that. If they use words that simply that there are other options you know that that he could have after lies beyond losing power. You know I think it is a very good example it's basically. If you think that. Everything all political parties must fall the Chinese are very. -- students of their -- history and -- know that even the longest dynasty at a lot of that is it the last thousand years on the Chinese dynasty list. 250 years. -- are a lot shorter now political positions a lot more odds of this deal last thing. As the only power party in power. For another fifty years is very slams so instead of just thinking about ways to you -- power. Thinking about ways to transition ways to maintain that don't influence and a multiparty system is something that hopefully they think about because it might. In reality it's imports. You introduced the possibility that the corruption campaign and I understand she's in paying his mania article about it -- they prosecutors them the prosecution of those you lie. Was the leading edge but there is others an investigation going on right now possible arrest possible confiscation. That -- corruption campaign. Is something about the transformation of the CCP tonight did do I reach it correctly that there's a positive to it. That there's positives and negatives depending on how well -- contained. And -- as well so what Iowa is kind of an appetizer -- -- can -- and an American contacts. What do you lied to they'd be we would be kind of the level of day. Member of Obama's cabinet where. -- con who's the guy that cheating pain is -- parents is going after now would be similar to going after Dick Cheney. Very very powerful official who has just left office is still maintains. Massive influence massive holdings around the country. And on the one hand this is good because so light. Policies. Talk to colleagues in the planning committee was almost certainly corrupt. The other hand. Because everyone's throughout the going that decision of who you go after does it is a political decision and if she can successfully. Take down Joseph without angering everyone else. Who is equally corrupt to work -- -- scrapped and it's a big success and but it's not the terms of massive. Public dispute can really exposed measures in the cup this party which would be very worried that people out. We've got to mention the military and that makes it difficult comparison to Mexico because while Mexico underwent. Military revolution after military revolution of the nineteen early twentieth century the -- dominated. A without using the military hand that is not necessarily the case my observation -- in China. She's in -- is a little allow has has. Correctly identified with the military in these last years. How do you think that that makes makes it less likely that China can follow the free the pre example because of its. Because the Chinese Communist party's military is so powerful and precedent. That's a good point I think the relationship between the Communist Party and the military is more similar to use should be -- -- -- is Mexico -- Beijing has very very clear that he People's Liberation Army. Is not. The country's army it's not the governments are but it parties are. So -- -- Tries to view publicly at least exert very strong control over the military he's the chairman of the Central Military Commission. He's been reading eighty. Anti corruption campaign as well in the LA which has as strong maybe stronger. As -- that's going -- in civilian life and I think. What you know what we think about nightmare scenarios for the people powered. I've come to -- very very are out there and in fact one of the rumors that circulated in Beijing after. What she lives and the bush you know again the blowout occurred as well is that what you live journal com we're together I think it can do. So that is something that the Chinese are very very worried about. -- stone fish is the -- editor for foreign policy 101000 years for the CCT. Question -- I'm John bachelor this is the John that session.