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NewsRadio 1330 KNSS>Audio & Video on Demand>>Fri 4/25/14 Hr 4 Paul Gregory, Hoover. Ilan Berman, American Foreign Policy Council. James Taranto, WSJ. Salena Zito, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

Fri 4/25/14 Hr 4 Paul Gregory, Hoover. Ilan Berman, American Foreign Policy Council. James Taranto, WSJ. Salena Zito, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

Apr 26, 2014|

Paul Gregory, Hoover. Ilan Berman, American Foreign Policy Council. James Taranto, WSJ. Salena Zito, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

I'm John that he said John bachelor show. The headlines from Europe point to Ukraine crisis deepened. The suggestion from -- the interim government and for reasons obviously Kiev government is not a measured speaker. Using the term world war three because of Ukraine crisis. The break out a break off conversation between Washington in the Kremlin is now apparent the Kremlin has announced no more communication. Washington has announced a new round of sanctions that's the macro version of Ukraine crisis Paul Gregory. Who is at the Hoover institution and is a Russian speaker and a man who has authored a new book about the women of the -- -- so he's very familiar with. Russian history over these last hundred years is looking now at micro. Reporting from eastern Ukraine from -- -- -- and in fact from one town it's love -- -- see it in the news. It's spelled in the Russian fashion but it's pronounced -- -- It's about a 129000. Population on the map. It is right now dominated by threat and merger. Paul a very good evening to you the slew of John -- mayor. Self appointed as a man by the name upon a Mario. Right now he has a reputation of violence and threat he's surrounded by gunman. What do we know about his conduct of the last week especially either the into Iraq to idea it intercepted conversation that you have up on your blog. Or the reporter in her conversation with about upon a Mario. Well we know what he's say. Brutal. Person. You would not like to be in the same room with him he's a target and they -- He is missing two fingers from his earlier service and the G our view of the Soviet. Union what is that -- what is the GRE. Military intelligence and service I believe he served in the north Arctic. We have to arm. Unplugged. Our interviews are. Over hearings. -- him. One is with great female reporter. Whom he shocked she is quite shocked -- what he says the other is to date. They tapped phone conversation between him. And a colonel stroke cost. Who had supposedly in charge of the entire operations. In southeastern. Ukraine. He is the Russian GRU. Our commander basically of these southeastern Ukrainian operation. So we have. Tapped conversation and then we have the open conversation between him and -- Rather frightened female reporter. Let's start with the Radio Liberty dispatched this is radio spoke photo which means freedom in Ukrainian Russian. Dated April 24 use as say that the indication here is is between stroke off. And -- tomorrow after we feel like we're lost in the novel being written in the 1930s Paul all right now stroke often -- -- -- using euphemisms. They're talking about a corpse what corpse what are we think is the interpretation of this strange language. Well the corpses -- clearly that a vote bloody Mary rebar or ball below the mayor Reebok who was one of the few. Rather brave for a pro Ukrainian. City councilmen and members of -- The the city Islam beyond just he is the one who tried to pull down the Russian flag over City Hall. He was last seen exiting City Hall being surrounded by Russian bugs. And his body his tortured bodies. What's found in the river along with the body of a -- student the next day so what there. Talking about -- what to do with this damn body. Right stroke cough is a Russian speakers sodas upon tomorrow off. Do we have any way to confirm that stroke coffins TR you or is it Radio Liberty telling us that. I think we have a great deal of evidence I think even the Wall Street Journal in the New York Times. Identify him as really the head of the operation and he's he's clearly a an operative vote for either of the week. After SB or the GR used properly the GRU. And his stroke -- nearby pond tomorrow off under the same city there are people are part. Instead they're discussing disposing a corpse which suggests that there's a crime. Being disguised tear -- we know that a body was found in the river we know that the interim president. Of -- of Ukraine. Church and off. Was very rocked by this discovery and that immediately afterwards were talking several days -- now. More of soldiers from Kiev were dispatched to eastern Ukraine so that's what we were told that time let's go to the other interview. This is an interview between a woman reporter for -- Russia what is that Paul. Well let's say one of the few. You know relatively open liberal. Our outlets left in Russia. It's it's the Russian. Operation not Ukrainian one. So she's a Russian speaker and yet -- and yeah I just love -- tomorrow off is the name. That ugly self appointed mayor of -- the Johns she's interviewing him about the violence and threat of violence what is she learned. Well -- and she learned. That took this guy is Saturday violent. Dangerous man. She asked him well you know you're the mayor. Surely not everyone agreed with your pro Russian position surely there's some people here aren't people who really. Would prefer to be in. Part of Ukraine. And his answer if I can just to quote him he says these people are like tapes in which people go to -- to look at. They'll be a separate group but under our control. Your operational work goes do you live a flashlight to attract the -- You attempted sticky tape the insects get stuck and then you smash them with applied -- -- -- -- answer is. Her answers I find what you're saying it's horrible. Yeah yes and part of our offense goes on boldly to be aggressive in his language. They also talk about the bodies found in the river. They speculate that one was the politician. Vladimir re back the other one is a driver we now know there's new depth and identification that he's a student from Kiev. This describes lawlessness Paul. And I call upon your historical values. Here because this also suggests to me that this if we'd had interviews on the Internet. In 1920s. Or 1935. They would have sounded like this -- because. -- John they would have would not have sounded so bad -- this is worse the reason is worse is that most of Stalin's -- executioners. Did so out of fear for their personal safety a few -- they did what we see here is 888 brutal stated just. Who's not doing this out of fear for his own personal safety saw I would say this is that it's much worse than anything I read. In the Soviet archives. One more details she says she indicates that this going to be an election on May 25 and part of morrow says it will not take place and she's -- aghast it won't take place in the hold on Boston's -- -- Won't take place anywhere believe me and then he goes on to say if anybody tries to vote here we're going to kill him he's very crude about it we're going to kill it. So we can believe that at least in this part of eastern Ukraine. The election is impossible because of these threats that a fair conclusion at all. That's a fair conclusion about what must realize that. Look -- beyond is the epicenter of Russian power right now there's seven or eight under other points. In which Russian power is not quite as strong so how can they have a national ref referendum when they control only. Six or seven location so this is a problem for -- Paul Gregory of the Hoover institution he's the author most recently have women of the Golan portraits of five remarkable lives. That was then this is now the man's name is the -- -- just love on tomorrow self appointed mayor of slew of yachts. You'll see him soon enough I'm John bachelor this is the -- that session. -- John yeah. John back to show. You credit crisis. Question to be asked is what does it cost. What is the cost for Russia today in it stands in Ukraine -- once a federation. It wants a country that is beholden to Moscow. There are sanctions in place at this point it's unclear if those sanctions can be turned into. More sanctions however Ilan Berman is here she's the vice president of the American foreign policy council. In Washington. Publishing most recently in the Wall Street Journal about the costs to Vladimir potent. For the Ukraine crisis there's a number already and it's climbing a lot of very good evening to you. It's I've not seen a way of translating the sanctions it doesn't look that it's entirely about sanctions it's about. The dependence that governments. Did the Russian government has especially is the central bank of Russia house so good evening here. So. It's I think a very good question because it what. The real cost are -- in sort of in real world dollars and cents. To the Russian government is sort of aggregated number of different places. And you answer in writing the piece I was trying to serve distilled down. What the price that is so far and that price tag he says its sanctions additional sanctions replied -- actually climb. And make I'm pretty significantly but it's already. Pretty significant it and of itself the Russian Central Bank just released new figures which said that. In the first quarter of this year. The Russian government lost 61 billion dollars. In capital that fled the country I've CNET and it's actually it's higher. And at the same time the Russian government is increasing its. Output. In the sense that he is actually obligated more money to spend topics like this new territorial acquisition of -- me. Let me put this promise cities and it's been seven billion dollars or more on Crimea. On everything from. Infrastructure to beefed up tensions -- local residents. So at that very same time that the international community is beginning to squeeze Russia economically the Russian government is going into deeper and deeper. Debt for at least economic obligation. As a result of its. Foreign policy adventures and the aggregate result could be. Particularly if sanctions are applied could be a pretty significant squeezing of Russia on the economic. My understanding immediately is that Russia was not in great economic. Position before the crisis is that accurate he -- Thought I think it'd been -- here you sort of have to separate the hype from the reality -- but the truth of the matter is that the International Monetary Fund. Last year downgraded Russia to -- time. I think actually they actually -- four times in terms of its growth projections based upon its sluggish demand for. Russia's mean output and indeed and turnabout from -- a one trick pony Russia exports energy. And more and more as the United States diversified away from oil and natural gas as we sort of do this. Have this shale gas revolution in Europe begins to serve take candidates steps in that direction the Russians are finding less and less demand for their exports. And so the Russian economy is rickety to begin with. And now with this sort of Ukraine misadventure. The price tag on it's going to be very very -- The expectation of course is that Russia will export energy to new markets is that realistic and they developed and quickly they have pipelines in place. For Europe. But to my knowledge they don't have comparable to pipelines for Asia. I think that's correct and in the Russians attack in Asia tidbit along before the Obama administration never -- about. But the reality is that Russian economic footprint in places like Asia Pacific. In East Asia is actually very minimal because Russia has territorial disputes with the Japanese Russia entered disputes with. Some other countries it has political disputes with countries like South Korea. And so there's really eight lack of penetration economically for the Russians in Asia. And this makes a big difference in the future because. As the last begins to get its act together as the west begins to move in more concerted action to try to at least contain. Russian foreign policy adventurism. I think one of the likely steps is going to be maybe not be decision but certainly a slowdown of economic activity on Russia's western. And that means that Russia is gonna have to turn east but it's not economically positioned very well and. -- who is LX seat coupe trend and what does it say about capital flight what is that. Well I think Putin's an important guy to go early to recognize he's therefore refine -- minister of Russia and he sort of turned into a critic of -- policies after having served under him. And he projects that this year. Alone. The cost of what Russia is doing Ukraine could cost the country. Upwards of 150 billion dollars. And that the country could stagnate could have you know severe. Depression recession as a result in the Russian economy that's a big deal with the big deal in particular because. Vladimir Putin has argued that there's only upside to what he's doing Ukraine. What scooter and is projecting and you know he's got the economic -- fees to do so. Is that there's tremendous downside to all of this and it's going to be borne by the Russian citizen. The approval rating though Vladimir -- is riding the wave of the approval I believe it's climbing depending upon the reporting sources. Does that offset any of this you know applause is much more are healthy for leaders like mr. Putin's then dollars. Now it's certainly and it's certainly offset all of these negative effect in the short. Because in the short term Russian citizens Russian voters Russian economic stake holders. He only the upside -- -- -- productive righteous writing you know large on the world stage. The international committee doesn't seem to have its act together. These sanctions you know handful Russian officials but there's really no biting economic pressure. And as a result you know -- content and his popularity is actually surged by ten percentage point in the last month as a result. But I think if you look into the future you're gonna see eight dipped in that approval rating because more and more -- people are gonna begin to feel. That there is a real real world costs associated with what is to. Can you assess the sanctions so far advanced by the Obama administration there's always talk of more sanctions but right now. There is BN various reports that it was against individuals in the government that hardly ever traveled to the west. And other suggestions that it was a lot of camouflage for nothing really very hard core because the Europeans are reluctant. -- that's exactly right in the you know that the real. 64000 dollar question here is. One of political well. I it's very clear that the Obama administration and far -- be on the about restrictions the European Union has a tremendous ability. Two apply economic sanctions that actually matter to the Russian Federation. On the energy sector on the banking sector correspondent accounts freezing assets travel they handled it. But what you're actually seeing so far has been only a very tentative toe in the water in this regard. We -- you'll see you know a couple thousand Russian officials. A lot of damage he said don't travel abroad very frequently. Do -- become targeted by economic sanctions. This is I think and opening itself on its okay that's an opening -- But it's. Very very detrimental if this is the extent of what the west is willing to do. Because then -- narrative that there's only economic upside to what he's doing in Crimea. And what he's gonna what he's planning on doing in the eastern Ukraine. Becomes reinforced. The more there is. Tangible evidence that is -- -- not correct there is an economic on what he's doing. To have more. The west has the ability to serve to slow his -- and. Ilan Berman is the vice president of the American foreign policy council in Washington DC writing about the cost so far of Ukraine crisis. For the Kremlin and Vladimir Putin I'm John bachelor this is the John vacillation. And John that's. This is the John bachelor -- the Affordable Care Act remains. -- -- That's -- generalities and when it comes to the Tony fourteen election. It has to be applied to the senate races in red states or purple states. There are many of those sitting senators and empty seats that are said to be leaning toward the Republican or our day. James to Rancho writing best who have for the Wall Street Journal is looking at one purple state that would be New Hampshire. This New Hampshire has just sitting. Senator Jeanne Shaheen former governor who is very popular if we understand how New Hampshire measures its excitement -- senators. In any event she is now being challenged we believe. By Scott Brown a significant. Member of the Republican Party because he comes from masterpieces and because he's been a senator and because. Ms. Scott Brown is not understood the the Tea Party kind of Republican in any event that's the background. To James sorrento looking at a momentary incident with Jeanne Shaheen. And the question now is the Affordable Care Act alone is that policy alone. Enough to trouble a sitting senator. James a very good evening to you I thought I didn't have to pay attention in New Hampshire I thought changing had this in the bag what's happened good evening to. Good evening well I -- him was -- have a safe seat she was elected in 2008. Beating a democratic incumbent New Hampshire is a Swedish April 1 that's tended to be democratic. And die she wasn't about to be facing serious challengers until Scott Brown got -- Scott Brown not I would correct you a little bit lazy not a Tea Party Republican. He's a moderate Republican but he actually was supported by the Tea Party backed him aside 2010 when he ran for. Deceit of the vacancy that was created by Ted Kennedy's death and in large part because he was opposed to obamacare. And of course -- she like every other Democrat in the senate in 2009 cast the deciding vote that led to. The so called patient protection and Affordable Care Act becoming a law and that she has to defend -- And in defending and she's running into what you'd say our troubles that there easily predictable. To answer questions of constituents about the the troubled Affordable Care Act she's had plenty of time prepare for this James -- we believe she's stumbling. Well she's so -- because she doesn't really have a good answer that we should say first of all. The Affordable Care Act is particularly troubled and capture which is one of only two states. We're only one insurance company is selling policies on the exchange the other one being West Virginia. So what that means is you go to the big change to buy a policy you'll have one choice and the blue cross blue shield. It has a network that includes I think ten of the State's 26 hospitals -- -- -- exclude certain states when it's six hospitals which is good for people and some parts of the state it's an hour drive to the nearest hospital where there. Insurance covers them. I and then of course you see the rays in the two raises are actually premiums people have their policies canceled the same problems we have a morale in the country. And she's been out twice now in recent weeks by constituents. Two eyes and she's changed fielded these complaints my premiums went out I had a policy that I like and it was canceled. That sort of thing. And what's interesting about it is in responding to these constituents. Should finally get food you know whats with the blue wise political response which is. Let me look into your situation and find out you don't let me be consistent service which he. Should be he's begun in both of these cases by saying. You know there's a lot of misinformation out there about this law. Yes in this particular call let's go to the first 1 good morning with Dan Mitchell it's it's a program radio talk show in New Hampshire WK BR. She took a call from a listener and you can validate anything that that's the nature of talk radio -- when you go in there you know this is the senator. The listener says. A president's Obama's health care is not affordable all right that's a statement perhaps it's meant to be provocative. But it's certainly something that you could validate pretty quickly from across the country she doesn't. She doesn't reject him but she says misinformation. What is that. What is that James I don't understand what that is your -- you get a call from somebody who's complaining and you say you've been misinformed. Well the more important part is what he -- it was. It's cost me more my deductible -- more than tripled and my monthly premium has doubled so it's not affordable -- that which is getting what he represents to be his own experience with this law. And she says there's a lot of misinformation out there now. I know what's going through my collection -- that which is she's reading all of these news accounts about horror stories. And then she reads the -- Obama commercials in the media like Michael -- sick of them in Los Angeles Times and Paul Krugman of the New York Times who say -- these stories are all exaggerated they're all lies. Well I looked into one of them destroyed -- Sunday and -- it wasn't at all but. There you know there's there's this sort of echo chamber. In the media sang these stories are true Harry Reid says these are stories are true and so forth so she had this idea -- had that the stories are true or not. You're right we don't know mature not maybe the guys Republican cracked collar she did the right thing and sang you know put give give me information and I'll have my staff look into it. But it's a very bad way of responding to a constituent. There's a lot of misinformation out there constituent who's giving you are always make your presentation about his own personal experience. The Affordable Care Act is going to be the topic this first second and third topic for the campaign of Tony fourteen. The democratic senators and issue a Jeanne Shaheen is the least vulnerable of many that you can talk about. Are well prepared or are they James because what you've identified surprised me. I thought I thought Scott Brown had a tough job here to convince the people of New Hampshire these actually for -- the ball. Concerned about the New Hampshire because he just moved there everybody roots for the ride out the Red Sox that doesn't matter. And I also thought he had to make case for why he would serve the constituency better than Jeanne Shaheen who after all was a governor and knows -- knows New Hampshire very well but. Chief lobbed right out of the box. Yeah well of course none of that notable we've been talking about has anything do with Scott Brown. I think he's just a guy who looks like he's going to be the challenger there's a primary with few other candidates. But he looks to be the strongest all right now it's not quite true that he just moved there -- he's not a vacation home there for some time he's designated as primary residence. They had some connections to the state. I often these side you know people who try to run him I have a different state like when our Jim Buckley did it in 1980. After serving a term as senator in New York it doesn't work out very well this may be an exception because Scott Brown is a pretty moderate Republicans. That he's too conservative for Massachusetts in a normal year. Remember he won that race and 2010 largely on the strength of his opposition to obamacare which had passed are just started a few weeks earlier with changing -- vote. But New Hampshire is a guy is a more moderate shapes our way and -- side so I think that he's pretty well suited. What other example comes to mind -- mr. Udall and Colorado as -- is defending his seat in a purple room blue state. Against mr. Gardner who is well respected young congressman who now has the field in the Republican side. And already mr. Udall senator Udall put an -- up attacking Gardner as I understand it because he's a Republican and he's against abortion that's the attack. And that's seemed both a puzzling this early. And desperate I was told by one of my correspondents that mr. Udall is attempting to define Gardner before gardener can get any adds up. Define him as a Republican James is that the best defense that got for the Affordable Care Act. I actually saw and -- I -- Colorado is still purples stated went for Robert W bush twice went for Bob Dole in 1996 I don't -- it's like quite a a democratic stronghold yet although it has been -- tending pretty strongly democratic. I remember the Republicans almost picked up the other senate seat there four years ago. Losing only because they nominated a guy it was a little bit started -- industry. Too much of a right -- here. -- who was going to run again this year red giant and to our. Agreed to run for the housing stats are but the fact that they're getting -- more mainstream candidates like gardeners is a yacht. -- that the Republicans think they're gonna do well this year. And the Democrats have not -- democratic senators who voted for the Affordable Care Act the sophisticated veteran democratic senators have not come up -- easy response to why did you vote for the affordable carriage is costing more more money etc. James sorrento. Writing best of the web for the Wall Street Journal about New Hampshire and Jeanne Shaheen senator Jeanne Shaheen I'm John that's. This is the John that system. Okay. -- -- Yeah. -- -- -- -- Fayette County. And the steam shovel of Fayette County is the center of a story. By -- Zito the Pittsburgh Tribune review -- early touring hard childhood but also the immediate terrain. Us the selena's. Wonderful genius here drove me to remember a story that was buried in my new rods for. Sixty years the story of Mike Mulligan and marry and so I'm going to -- Selena about the marry out of Fayette County. Selena very good evening to you Mike Mulligan and -- and we're gonna allow everybody to think for awhile what are they talking about before we. We describe that book but yours steam shovel is growing old where is it and why is -- cared for good evening to you. Evening he would. This steam shovel it sitting on. A major highways that connect Pittsburgh to -- Virginia that the state route 51. And it's this sort of iconic -- tablet and sitting there. Most locals say it's been sitting there for at least sixty years the games -- went out favor. Oh -- back into the 31 diesel powered engines. Proved to be much more efficient. But is this seems elephant sitting on the highway and and just started become part of the local. Lore it's his part as part of the personality picture rain. And and has always been there I can remember it being there as a child my father remembered it being very few of the child. And over at the winter. It's trained. Broke and if there was no longer -- pain and it's that and a lot of people that make that. That -- between Pittsburgh and West Virginia and all all points south. It's -- going anywhere south of Pittsburgh and perhaps it's half this all ancient. It looks like it's covered with the graffiti of every graduating class. Since I would say it's a wonderful life I mean clearly there was an opportunity for everybody does say. Oh you know high school 48 I don't create high school 68 so that makes it an attractive. Part of the landscape but what about the county officials -- they asked to move it is it in any fashion a danger to children climbing on and anything like that. Now I mean the area you'd be areas that -- hit on is older mining. Strip mining area and there is an older rural and the state. Book is that if you keep a piece of equipment. Come on and and mine property it is still considered and an active mind and you did not have to move it. And that's exactly what they did there there is up and -- of the carpet at the pretty busy highway for a could be very difficult for people that this casually walked. And and create they can graffiti but they can't create -- I -- We're looking at a very large machine from 67 years ago. And I can imagine in the winter it's completely covered by snow. And then this this spring comes that it melts off in the birds hang out on it and everybody drives by and all the time. Which now allows us to tell the story of our childhood steam shovel this is Mike Mulligan. And Marianne and thanks to your column about the giant of Fayette County I was reminded go immediately -- Kindle. And by Mike Mulligan and -- and I stupidly forgot about it but use Selena a much better parent read it to your children so please tell anybody who is Mike Mulligan and -- Mike Mulligan was a way a game. The shovel operator and you know the story goes that you know. It integrates I have about America rate it shows how. He and his team's travel Marianne helped build America Rite -- that the deep water ways is that heavy barges can -- attempts. But I path state and and they helped -- the canals. -- mountain passes which -- -- and highway and they hollowed out basement of city skyscrapers. They word. Sort of the very symbol of industrial America. And then the diesel engines come into play in the book. And and there are these sort of bully and a mock. Might and Marianne and there's sort of taken a wave from Lido where all the businesses and and nobody on that many. Right most of them are sold for junk and marianas facing a very unhappy future of Mike doesn't find a place for. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Yes operas and their parents thought Pittsburgh like adamant. And they are started based sort of stare at the local elected men. That they could -- The basement for their new town hall after the better than any diesel engine that could do it in today. And that -- and take them up on it. And you know he starts at the crack of dawn and that sort of chronicle it is felt the crowd that the count people come to watch. And and and choose to wired Mike and -- in and the -- hand. Dig out the basement unfortunately. They coordinate their ballot and they did not build themselves away -- And you know that elect men then decide that they're not going to. Paint -- -- -- a Marianne because you know they didn't finish the job they are able to access. And then a -- of that town with a little boyfriend count comes up with the idea. Don't like can't. Maryann you be different for the new town hall. And though it showed that started this exploration and how you get yourself out of a corner. Right there are box and and they got the south out of the corner and -- found a way to be useful in another way in at the end of the -- you see this black men sitting in the basement. Talking with Mike Mulligan if he's smoking a play and -- in there at the. Now where we -- about America now when you go to pop -- be sure to go down in the cellar of the new town hall. There'll there'll be Mike Mulligan and marry and Mike and his rocking chair smoking his pipe and -- and beside him. Warming up the meetings in the new town hall that's Mike Mulligan and Maryann but back to Fayette County. The reason this story so attracted me I now understand it reminded me of my youth and what a bad parent I was -- read this story to my children I hope that I can make it up to my grandchildren if I'm so lucky -- But it also attracts me to the idea that everybody driving by this steam shovel likes it. I didn't know about this kind of of a sentimentality. And and I'm math this tells me that everybody is still very related to the natural resources that built Pittsburgh you haven't forgotten where he came from. Now even though don't expect it changed remarkably and and that's sort of oldham -- that you can Wear their landmark and you came in it counts aren't there. There is you know is this same sort of sensibility about the people in all around. You know it seems stumble and they said it was sort of represent the -- -- America sprayed and they were very symbolic of industrial America. But what progress. You know content -- seen that -- technology. And you know most of those old symbols are gone. But perhaps extra time people that see this team's travel on. But -- he -- and there are several conservative. And those kind of icon -- it's Arctic -- earn it. Which is built by -- at Carnegie had been left intact. Beautiful. Old to steal mail that the -- and not get Ellen Ratner. And I think it's important they added that that we. Preserve some of these. Icon because they remind us who we are and what we've done. -- Zito Pittsburgh Tribune review staff writer she writes the editorial page column for the Pittsburgh Tribune review. And those of you traveling along route fifty won't infect counting. Give a wave to the old steam shovel where we came from I'm John bachelor this is the John -- out.

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