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NewsRadio 1330 KNSS>Audio & Video on Demand>>Tues 8/12/14 Hr 3 - Eric Trager, Bob Zimmerman, Anna Nemtsova, Paul Gregory

Tues 8/12/14 Hr 3 - Eric Trager, Bob Zimmerman, Anna Nemtsova, Paul Gregory

Aug 13, 2014|

Eric Trager, Bob Zimmerman, Anna Nemtsova, Paul Gregory

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

I'm John bachelor this John Nasser showed our trigger of the Washington institute here with. Reports on Cairo on presidency -- And his concerns for the security of the most populous of all Arab state and the one that is critical to maintain the peace. In the middle relief the Arab. The Arab and turmoil has not disrupt. Did the longstanding 79 treaty between Egypt and Israel and that is stronger than ever despite the provocations of Hamas. And the negotiations now under way in Cairo. I do not turn to the eastern side of 693. Mile long border with Libya. Which is now in complete chaos with. Burning columns and Ben Ghazi and it Tripoli and uncertain future because the government has fled to -- Brooke. However within these last days president CC in a joint press conference with the Italian prime minister. Taking what is this quote a serious approach to meet the reality of events on the ground in Libya and quote -- very good evening to you. Libya does it threaten. The Egyptian government's right now it seems very far away from Cairo. Good evening I would say it -- Egyptian government I don't think it has. Yet reached a level where it's gonna destabilize -- -- political order but. It is definitely -- it consequence for Egyptian security on July 19 there was a major act. -- Barack 08 sit back or error out. In the in the Western Desert. And 22. Security force -- servers. Were killed and that is actually the deadliest days for. Egyptian security forces since he Sinai it acts of August 2000 and well actually. Beat the to the head of the Bill Perry at the time now. In response Egypt launched revenge warrant which of the operation within its own borders against terrorists who are presumed to have called from Libya. But it's facing a host of problems connected with the including Libya even beyond those attacks. Egyptians who work in Libya remember. Many thousands of egyptians work in Libya the neighboring country. They had to be evacuated many -- it via Tunisia. And that you know the Egyptian government had very rocky relations with Tunisia while Egypt is now governed by a military band. Tunisia currently has emboldened brotherhood organization. As part of the transitional coalition that and not so Libya is creating a host of paltry Egypt both in terms of the internal security. It will be broader diplomatic environment in which she is trying to evacuate its own citizens. From a very unstable neighboring country. Morocco -- long for decades seen as a source of stability in North Africa is that true for Cairo or are they close relations between the two countries. There are there deepen relations between two countries and certainly Egypt hadn't -- Morocco as well as Algeria. On trying to find a solution in Libya but because Morocco that it it and it's likely to be a bit let's pivotal. The bedouin tribes the right of them in the Western Desert the significance of those two general CC are now presidency -- What does this mean for transnational. Smuggling for transnational crime and especially for those weapons they worry about. Well the tribe actually don't correspond with national boundaries the tribe in the Western Desert light I got to meet with some of the tribal chiefs when I was there in in March. They're tribes and across that. Libyan Egyptian border and they frequently go into Libya portrayed it will manage tribal prayers are with you see it done. Since last year's coup is try to engage with tribal leaders make -- partners in stabilizing the Western Desert now. That -- itself as an achievement webpart -- into treatment that he's one. The air support in trying to stabilize the Western Desert but. He had not asked them to police the border. And not likely that they're going to be very effective what they have done what they say they've done at least. Is rounded up wet in in exchange for the Egyptian government releasing any of their members who work in politicized -- -- after more -- Ouster last year. But because so much of the trade in that region is involving -- being in drugs Google aren't. Smuggling it's highly unlikely that the -- long term solution. During the Libyan civil war often I would speak to Libyans. Who were living -- island Cairo and it seemed to be that there was a straightforward route from Cairo to Ben got easy to trip two on to Tripoli. Is that still true are many Libyans. In Cairo a watching general CC now presidency C deal with the Libyan chaos. -- Cairo had long been a place where people come for refuge from across. Africa especially northern Africa many sit and -- Many Libyans so that still the case but I would frankly expect that there are more Egyptian at least until very recently. In Libya working in oil and other industries. And and at the security situation in Libya has broken down. You pat that you are -- government trying to pull. Those people out. So I I suspect that you'll soon have more -- in Egypt and egyptians and Libya but not really shaping the politics of this issue. Now for the matter of general now president CC and Vladimir Putin president of Russia. You sent -- an Arabic side I can only barely handle in Eric your your Arabic is. Of hay is in the 21 century mine is by Google translation. But it looks like a present. -- your Arabic and that's when he first. Now mind is in the twentieth they expected to analyze your I guess I'd take your -- and it looks like presidencies in president potent are enjoying each other's companies but. That's good but it also looks like -- reviving that talk from a year and a half ago of arms sales. From Russia to Cairo do what does -- have the money do they have the need for this the last time we talked about this. Cairo had a and US dominated weapons systems. Kyra the money it does not is going to get the money from -- partners. -- possibly be the key point here though is not whether or not you actually get these -- in which by the way include. Fighter -- to act helicopters military transport helicopters. An anti technical but the question not whether you could actually get the thing -- the signal that you should continue to send to Washington -- -- that. It's losing faith in the military build her relationship as the fine. Egyptian -- relations -- many years it's getting very in -- -- -- -- that Apache helicopters. Weapon that it needs to police the Western Desert and -- that Sinai to counterterrorism and those two but can't. Desert region the fact that not getting those from Washington and is forcing it to look elsewhere. And I frankly think that Cairo's patience is starting to Wear -- in my real worry is that this will be another situation. That our policy makers are just way behind the curve and be content in Washington. Is that. Egypt will not be able to make any real. -- in terms of weapons relationship with any other country because no one else will give them weapons were -- or by -- -- Hope that now it's true that frankly. Well in acres have been wrong continuously. In judging -- behavior in 2011. Presidencies in president coat looked very comfortable together and -- presidency -- taking to the presidency. He's a young man by comparison to Mubarak and some of the other leaders in the area. In in the Omar are the Egyptian people pleased with having such a vigorous and leader. Well it seemed that the Egyptian people are pretty polarized remember that. -- -- If he won 96%. Of vote but it was a relatively. Low turnout even by your actual figure. And we remembered that you know the brotherhood support but likely not completely evaporated. So so I think I think that each stage occur in politics all are still somewhat fluid but it's certainly not nearly as fluid as they have -- Over the previous few years for the same time remember that. -- critical met Egyptian art checked out their higher. You -- that had thirty years -- so I'll -- in three and a half years. And I think that for that reason alone unless there's some major economic strike it very very afternoon. He's he will have a cushion of at least a two year Lipper in the outreach to Russia is something that it's not at all controversial within each. -- trigger of the Washington institute I'm John -- for this is John -- show. I. I'm John Nash -- this John bachelor show. I SS lower earth orbit and we had there with Bob -- and keeps the web -- behind the black it's important here in this ATV cargo freighter. Resupply -- I says all eyes are on -- assets because of the breakdown in comedy between Washington. And Moscow. However all appears well so far Bob a very good evening to the ATP is being discontinued practice and one of the last launches. This is that one of the last this is the last -- TV it's gonna stop with quiet as it has docked successfully launched about two weeks ago. That happens they -- took a very slow route get if you would. Maximize their cargo -- carried over seven tons of fuel that water and other things. The Jake Peavy was built by Europe and as a barter agreement could be their contribution to -- -- In their infinite wisdom of that -- and the European Space Agency they've decided that it's a broader agreement to continue the water agreement. Rather supply caused a -- that Sobel the service module -- -- Ryan and I can't go to. You've -- don't try to explain it to me because. I don't understand. That I don't think anything else does so they're building one and a half service modules. -- seller of riots. In exchange -- for not having to build anymore ATV it appears European Union to a building eighteen peaceful border with the idea just building new ones. The more additional ones they just wanted to do something new so that's the stories but it stopped. It will you'd be in its fuel that engine will be used just it's just dissolve its wallet today at a remote -- Chicago. And so that has worked at the. NASA. Building the space launch system they -- launch system and act asking for billions of dollars to be devoted to program that may produce. A first launch into money seventeen. Now admitting they've got budget problems already Bob the Seles is a catastrophe why doesn't the Obama team shut it down. Well because congress has mandated. And you know in this one case that the Obama has decided to obeyed the law that congress. I would say though that. It's Ryan's. And the problem with epilepsy is actually relates to. Europe. Certain muscles that I just mentioned that they've -- people. They are behind schedule they're the ones that are having problems. If this service that he actually this sort of -- to finish and the schedule can't proceed as planned I should mention that that. There is going to be as scheduled -- Ryan test flight late edition year in December. That is on the books and it looks like he will happen he will fly on a belt before rocket. -- and it's mainly get toward the nation the -- though Bryant heat shield. The first official test flight over write it on an SL little SL less rockets. It's scheduled for 2017. And that mission is supposed to go up to -- Lou regions actually then back at full speed. The tests the heat shield again. That's the mission that got problems because they can't get to the mobile without -- service model and then Europeans have problems. And having a little problems kidnapped there are cracks that have been found in the heat shield. But yes there war cracks validate the. Structure of this capsule up the point seventeen that they can't prepare. You actually write Java has selected natural disaster. I've said it before and I'll say it again I predict that by 2017. Congress and the president whoever should be at that time. Oh -- -- decided by did the -- that's no point wasting -- little money on this certain programs that life may be once every four years. Has no program goals. Is extremely. Wasteful money is very expensive. I can't really accomplish anything they will cancel. Especially because I expect my 20s17 we will be seen -- manned flights by. At least one other American companies state that it may be here -- about that. And we will see the watch probably by -- and use thereof of the -- anti. All of which will course looks less and be much more efficient and be practical and be useful -- be able to be used to actually accomplish something. So what is typical wait is without -- The American space suits are Mercedes the Russian spacesuits are toyotas the American spacesuits are troubled and right now they've had to postpone spacewalks. How do we get them fixed Bob we don't have the shuttle anymore. Well you look back -- dragon and most private companies to gain coming to the rescue what has happened is that the US state. Suits on -- diet that they discovered that there was a problem. In the batteries we've seen in the spaces table going to bring on that dragon missions. They a new set of long life batteries for the since and they need that right now because the ones they've got have a problem. And so those states spacewalks -- the late once again. Once again that NASA's spacesuits would design with the shuttle than mine. Making it very easy to a whole lot opted out. And in the modern world in the more efficient to coincidences there and now they can't do that and so US has repeated problems. Space. SpaceX is scheduling dragon launch abort tests what is an abort test -- Well this is getting back to those commercial companies and what will fly ball out before all riot. Dragon is was built from day one to every human being. But its initial work of the news just duke -- go up and down. To make it -- and rated vehicle the one thing it really has lack is an ability to do so watchable this means. It -- launch -- on top of its rocket. And there's a problem -- while the rockets could explode. Well you have to have some way to separate that capsule from the rocket. Sling it a little bit away safely and that can't be able to come back to earth safely with the school board. Heavily during launch of anything goes wrong with the first or second stages. The. -- that's capsule have to have the ability to separate and get back to earth safely that's watchable and. Dragon SpaceX has been planning these launch abort tests for sometime they usually go to duke in the summer it got laid. They've now set -- dates in November and January the first step will be it for all and abort test on the launch at the Porter Ronald how can not and. And they will. -- -- It's ejected from. The rocket and see how it goes. And then the second can't they will do it actually don't mean an actual -- -- the separation -- -- and he's coming up this. This year. So very early next year and when those dogs and successful. Basically tracked it will be pretty much ready to take human space. Four. -- pennies compared to SF last. What's the status of dream chaser and what is it. Dream chaser is American companies that make our Ryan -- Ludacris infected even an extra second look ludicrous and -- instead. If -- say many shuttle it's using technology that was developed initially by NASA. In the second these lifting by technology that it's combining that with what was learned by the shuttle program forty years out of. How to build a reusable craft in Sierra Nevada the company did -- -- chase -- it's not like a rocket they built it they've got crap they -- use over and over and over again and. -- need to do some more of flight tests and so what does happen is yet. Engineering test vehicle that was basically duplicate votes dream -- that he did one like at very successfully. Unfortunately one -- landing years did not open not deploy properly during that fly at the end of that flight to even though the glide test was 100. As successful. Landing failed -- but ultimately it's grappling with the runway. That -- it was not part of the actual craft so this was not -- a failure at. Opening the -- and chase they've managed to refurbish that engineering test vehicle and Sierra Nevada has announced the gonna do. Additional manned and unmanned flight tests of -- this all. With contract for a November 16 of November. Next year. That's 2016. -- Bob Zimmerman he keeps the website behind the black I'm John -- this is the John -- show. Odessa or Jesse is an ancient. The Black Sea bass but now it is in Ukraine which brings it in two. Question about its future its perilous future will it follow that Don Basque region to the east. Or will it remain an independent thinking culture. And on them -- -- -- of the Daily Beast and -- traveled more than once to Odessa in these last months of Ukraine crisis. And most recently she was there visiting with the restaurant tour and developer. Because Odessa on the C is a place to go and enjoy restaurants and there is a dish. On a photograph attached to -- his most recent piece of the Daily Beast that will make everybody hungry it looks like a fish dish. But let's talk about the restaurants and cafes of Odessa. And a a very good evening -- -- early in the Ukraine crisis there was a there was an incident a arson and aid a mass death and no gas said that darkened the scene there. And left Odessa a question mark. In Ukraine crisis will it go. To the pro Russian separatists -- stay with Kiev but right now. We're talking about Odessa quite independent of politics well you'd say it's the politics of cuisine. What am -- looking at what is is dish signified TU when you think of Odessa good evening to you. John. Typically. That he can beyond that picture and not about my story. It's full of fun and told British T shirt and shorts situation on traditional. I get saddened and patient back -- eagle ties perils there on the -- Ultra traditional. Ignorant to the guarantee -- so hold -- killed I think your kid. Several restaurant that needed by a wanted. President giving a shot -- he can guarantee -- they -- outside eleven restaurants and I guess trying to. Today and it beat Gilbert slightly after another. They found it difficult for him out because. He used to belong to his remarks come from Russia. And it makes your job he has Ukraine and it did that today. As I have to -- what's next. The grant to discount. On vacation -- yet count. And that -- -- BJ how foolish people that aren't fooled people children up cleaned should be contracts. To what I for anything it -- -- in the Ukraine object you weeks ago where he's armed and if you look like. And go see on -- is completely shattered it the day and I can't stand is celebrating a life should should agree eighteen summer. And the bush speech meant that we eat. In -- ideology. Is there aren't don't she eat dog. And -- life. We like to -- for like -- and how -- true it's. And we want to have peaceful lives. It did that the context of the war morbidity and added he'll I didn't very much. In that everybody PlayStation when you're here you talked to pressure -- minutes. You hear the word war. A -- say is an ancient capital for the region good heavens it was probably. The Greeks and before that we could reach back into. History to prehistory but right now it's associated with a mix of cultures. I'm presuming islamists present and we know -- -- orthodox christianity is present as well and probably Roman Catholic christianity. Are the church is a feature of the cultural audacity to hear the church -- the way you do in Eastern Europe. You know I can't tell you he could gain what -- the eye catching the great couple hundred here the first fairly it is multi. The European architecture Egypt and then try to change. It's very beautiful. Old Communist really graceful. Army needs people -- aren't tricky is how long along the chi. Orange Bowl in beautiful. Squares to handle the parks. -- music everywhere. It. You know if we talk about each and I think he came mosques and I guess. A little eruption. So that -- -- box. Sure teachers. Tomcat but he added there is -- -- -- because it was a traditionally speak at a Jewish community now acknowledges that because you could be. But it. Still I try to community. Are in and there are actually being there there is trained shared comedian and even -- it -- -- that she should. In French. So I can't -- to see rediscovering its international. Sort of background. And caricature. Did they try to revive. In ignited. A freedom that big -- -- institution -- before -- -- -- -- The question at god what that Russia is coming cheap chief steppe nation. You know brought the speed. By the tortured -- the credit I don't have been talking bar. It. After the -- after the tragedies that we eat week apartment in any. You know most people. -- very much together. And they want to be part -- they do want to get it to eight Ukraine. The society consented dated about a year and only I'm never going to -- and overall you know objection -- Let's talk about salvo -- they show a few match. And what he and his partner did was they discovered what I presume was an old -- that had been abandoned whoever owned it wasn't keeping it up. And they renovated it to be a restaurant it's not doing a big business now but. These shout toes are they on the water do they have a good it's a good front change and good views. At all -- -- building implosion -- that belong to come yeah. All of the food thirtieth sanctuary. -- -- And without discovered that that at mention which was on the continent it territory Oprah -- missile -- Santorum sparkled child. It worked -- destroyed or it out from the wedge from wild. Park wildcard in particular -- -- wilderness she would you want to keep it. And the doping. And original as possible. And didn't catch much and it just. We -- waited -- Lil bit but can't heal old that old mentioned Ecuador and two. A pretty patient. Global -- Gotcha you call that -- -- is firmer. Cottage where it's summer vacation policy. For former Soviet Union. People and everybody had -- -- -- -- -- traditional -- his country -- So -- restaurant called back -- is not just hot. In Hilton had to be garden where -- -- -- -- with that -- and have their children play. -- -- -- can't change its German troops for what it can can climb lean -- clean water. Actually for children. And each -- in the mentioned. It called don't look at what some Trout it as -- as dated as an against children the bathroom and there aren't. So you actually feel very much at home had -- can actually. It is unfortunate that this summer and all too many visitors. It was breaks -- can cards used to be Oprah book to Malaysia this summer. Is it on the the seafront or is it it's in the interior and a forest. And now on the entrenched boulevard that is sort of a central. Beautiful week. He. -- residential pop charts and state building. Did so but -- a barbecue and check -- -- Usually it all out flat CD you're -- our -- that you're in eighteen -- BP. -- -- you've just you've just returned from Odessa how is the food everywhere I know you talked to one restaurant tour but. Is there a variety of food -- is it like Paris. More Ukraine that Paris I would say that there had a nice trip -- console like you go to TD garden. This is -- Central Park. I -- -- mean they turn out I'd get them. And restaurant all around it. People eat outside had implying that the French restaurant at -- at least is there's repeat the plea. -- and he'd seen it very important. Who should get thank you unit -- -- can't calculate that guests are fairly confined to actually from anything from traditional Ukrainian. She is Asian food whatever your life. And you call people who live in Odessa oh deficits is that the way to the Russians refer to them -- dash oh deficits. Well they call themselves that they speak Russian most people speak Russian and I -- they beat beat beat cold without actually. I. -- -- -- And that says that in general for somebody equally. A local and christianity he's trying to get count could no. All the flee the field -- he's been visited the light is very interest -- it very unique and I guess people choke a lot. They have this very. Didn't ask specific sense of humor they can -- exchange with very seriously there would be incredibly funny. And they don't create it make it their allies that they make you choke. -- -- -- director explained to me that. -- in addition people look very happy that after October about it and that trilogy and he can. Our ability stopped coming into the cut it back and the police. Great any ink so attacked ingredient for a lost to China are in different people -- joking. Whenever they -- little TI. Behind and their sense of humor with a sense if you -- a little further apart -- any church. The captain. -- on them so of the Daily Beast and Newsweek she's been traveling she's back in Moscow. But we're speaking of Odessa allow adults defeat today in Odessa at a seats is what you call yourself from the -- I'm John bachelor. This is the John -- I'm John that's. This is the John bachelor show. Convoy of Russian trucks. Numbering some 198. Or more. Headed towards Ukraine especially the eastern part of Ukraine called the done us. They have not arrived yet and there are plans. To take it across the border. -- Kiev authorities in these last hours commenting that they believe this. -- it is in fact military here and that it will be blocked at the border. -- -- For the Hoover institution this year looking at Ukraine crisis these many weeks later because. The talk now is of a humanitarian. Relief and humanitarian cease fire. To transfer goods into Don -- no one challenges the fact that the people of Don masks are at risk and in apparel and all. So suffering the dapper in a that the depredations of the fighting these last weeks. But this convoy looks to be the way the most recent contest between Moscow and NATO. And Kiev Paula very good evening GO. The Kiev authorities say military gear we have no idea to know what's in those trucks the Russians say 2000 metric tons of food. Medicines and water is there are a arbiter to inspect the trucks before they try to cross the border good evening to you Paul. Our good evening us. We have two versions of the deal between. Russia Ukraine and the International Red Cross -- the Russian version. You have the Ukrainian version Ukrainian version is that the structure spoke to come to the border. The contents are to be transferred. To waiting truck from the other side of the border. Blowing two. Red Cross -- Red Cross will take the goods. Into the war zone the Russian version has no the trucks should proceed on opened. To the war zone and that. Our Ukraine is reneging on an earlier agreement. So we don't know what to decide. 50% chance of -- humanitarian aid 50% chance mixed in its military hardware. Fog of war and we're looking -- Ukraine crisis these many weeks later. No closer to resolution than before despite all the major power is getting involved in this. Paul Gregory has a new piece out at Forbes dot com and we turned out of the speculation ongoing about this conflict especially over an 817. The tragedy in July that is still under investigation to my knowledge investigators have been in the region they've returned to Europe. We do not have any results right now on Paul is writing of a theory hypothesis. A conspiracy. In Moscow is that correct Paul this is a Moscow theory of why am a seventeen was brought down. No it's Ukrainian intelligence. Theory. Based upon intercepts interviews it's better. Do Ukrainian. View is that the separatists. Have been given orders to shoot down an air float plane air flow to vote 74. Headed to our Cyprus. There for the shooting down of a civilian aircraft was deliberate only they got the wrong aircraft. All right let me get this straight this is the Ukrainian theory about what Russia plotted to do. On the day that -- seventeen was shot down so it's. Ukrainians. Speculating or asserting what the Russians plan to and however it resulted in bringing down the wrong airplane is that is not now the of the way we the the formula here. That is the Ukrainian formula. Ukraine. Claims to have our hard evidence they've turned this evidence over to the international investigation. They've been rather closed mouth about what this evidence is. I think they did the right thing by saying. It's up to this international committee -- about you wait this information not us. What is the X why would Russia want to bring down an arrow fly. -- afloat flight that would be Russian citizens it would wanna shoot down its own aircraft why how does that help Russia. Well it's. From may put to that point of view. Nothing better than this could happen. The shooting down of the air -- Presumably by Ukraine because it would be easy to well. Blamed Ukraine for bringing down these -- Russians. Would give to our Putin and the Russians say perfect excuse. To enter. In response to this outrage invade Ukraine. Take over -- crash site. And the west. Are could scarcely protest because they're they're allies these Ukrainian Nazis. Have done the unthinkable they shot down not. Our group of Russian vacationer. The vacationing families headed for the beaches and Cyprus. So as far as Putin is concerned nothing could have been better than this outcome. This so there's it would only cost 380 Russian lives. Flight AFL's Tony 74 was outbound -- it came very close to flight and made seventeen which was headed to the east not to the south. And -- the use that theory here the Ukrainian theory is that the Russian separatists. Shot down the wrong they're wrong aircraft they were trying to shoot down may have felt 27 before they flipped a shot dynamic seventeen. And therefore everything fell apart that's the figure. Yes. The two aircraft are separated by 600 meters they basically converge if you look at the air traffic. Pattern so I was very reluctant to write the story because. Writing such a story puts you immediately into the Kook fringe. On the other hand I would not put it past -- this is very reminiscent of the apartment bombings. That are created this so wave of nationalism preceding the second Chechen war. That's 1999. When 200 -- three Russians died in a three Russian cities because there were bombings. Supposedly launched by Chechen Nationalists who were striking back for the tension more. For. And we do we still don't have confirmation about who did those bombings of the time the accusation wise as it was Chechens and that led. To Vladimir Putin's being elevated in their Russian political canvas and he became president the following year. I would recommend John Dunlop so Merck exceptional book on this subject where he goes through the evidence very carefully. And the predominance of evidence is that this was state joint Yeltsin. -- -- plot we're Putin was. Hitting the F interest the side of the plot. So. I think it's very unfortunate that we cannot dismiss such theories are out of hand. With respect to Putin but the am unable to do so knowing his past. Right now Paul measuring these the speculation about age -- seventeen setting that aside in the speculation about what's gonna happen with the convoy. It appears that we're no closer to resolution in Ukraine then we were when this started the beginning of summer winter is coming on call. The natural gas lines can be erupted by Ukraine and that damages Europe is so there's a timeline here correct. May have no idea what's going to happen this winter in in Ukraine. I would say there has been a very significant development that so we tend overlooked and that is. That Ukraine's antiterrorist operation. Has been successful. Luke Luke -- -- and done yet after encircled. Are without some kind of major military action on the Russian part. It looked as if the anti terrorist operation will succeed this doesn't mean the problem and it's because Putin can continue to supply. Mercenaries and equipment but. The Ukrainian armory has to pursue our has proven remarkably resilient. Which isn't surprised by the way. Pope Gregory for the Hoover institution -- most recently at Forbes dot com the fog of war on Ukraine. And questions again about NH seventeen. I'm John bachelor this is the John that --

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